Message posted by JB737 on June 09, 2007 at 3:29:58 PST:

I'm very much in agreement with Andre, but will add my 2 cents worth (or more):

1. I've not heard of any serious attempt, or even any joking attempt at R/C intrusion. Serious attempts are not done, because not many people want to live in federal prison. Joking attempts, because not many people want their joking attempts mistaken for serious attempts, for the reason above. Note that even a joking attempt at gathering intellligence via things like remote control, would be a far more serious infraction than a tourist accidentally driving in past the border signs and stopping at the guard shack...and that gets you arrested, investigated, and fined $600+ as a minimum. I'd guess that an amateurish R/C attempt at intrusion would at least get you something between that and the $5000 fine plus some jail time or suspended sentence. The more serious the attempt, the more surely you'd be looking at the full $5000 and 6 months, plus any other charges (e.g., "terrorism", conspiracy, etc.) they could tack on.

2. Getting to even the public side of the closer parts of the border, undetected, is not at all easy. I've read a handful of credible reports of folks who did so, and they had the good sense to stay on the legal side. To be sure you are undetected, you almost have to hang out there for a night or two waiting to see if you get the "flashlight in the face while sleeping" treatment. You will note that getting to the border undetected is a prerequisite for getting inside the border undetected. Last but not least, you also need to get back outside the border when you are done. If you are going the necessary distance to see anything while inside, you would need to have cached gallons of water inside the border ahead of time. You can't exactly airdrop them. Like an Everest expedition, you'd have to establish Camp 1, retreat to basecamp, establish Camp 2, retreat to basecamp, etc. Many trips inside just to set up a supply route. It is unimaginable that you could make several trips in, to set up a supply route without being caught!

3. There is no way to know, and I know of no credible information either way. The known sensors on the public side are for detection of metallic vehicles moving, rather than hearing/feeling footsteps of hikers.

It would take mainly money, which is not in short supply there, to have arrays of seismic sensors that could not only detect, but triangulate the location of footsteps.

I would be much more concerned about body heat being detected by FLIR sensors on the helicopters (or perhaps also from ground-based camera locations) than by seismic-type sensors. There is simply no practical way to avoid leaving a FLIR-detectable heat signature when hiking. If you insulate yourself well enough to leave a tiny signature, then you will roast and die of heat stroke inside your insulation when exerting yourself. I have several ideas on how to FLIR-proof yourself without overheating, but they simply aren't even close to being practical for hiking across Nevada terrain at all, much less undetected visually.

JB737

In Reply to: security posted by tony on June 08, 2007 at 10:27:14 PST:

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