Message posted by Mark McCandlish on June 29, 2006 at 22:13:50 PST:
Okay, okay... Let me put it to you like this: I was in the Air Force. I don't know anything about the command structure of the Army. In fact, the questions you raised were some of the very same that I raised in investigating the story when it first came to me from the former soldier who claimed he had been there. In doing a Google search on the 160th SOAR, I first found information that they were based out of Fort Campbell, Kentucky, if memory serves me correctly. It may be that his assignment to the 160th SOAR came after he had been station at THe Armyu base in Texas. Going over the notes taken during my interview with the witness, I'll lay out some of what he shared with me, so for those of you that recognize or understand the command structure for the Army and/or Special Forces, this might clarify what I was told. If any of it makes sense, then by all means enlighten me; I'd really like to know.
The witness said that, at the time, his group had been sent covertly into East Germany to retrieve what he referred to as "U.S. assets". In asking what that meant, he replied that there were a number of individuals behind the Iron Curtain, who were working with various U.S./western intelligence services. By May of 1989, it was clear that the fall of Soviet Russia and the Eastern Bloc was imminent. The witness stated that he and the group he was a part of were inserted into East Germany to recover these individuals before the collapse, so as to secure their survival. It was felt that if the Secret Police in the Eastern Bloc suspected you were a traitor, they would rather kill you and be sure that you never left than to wait to see if they were correct afterward. The Berlin Wall and collapse of Soviet Russia and the Eastern Bloc occurred about six months later.
It was during this insertion that they were "redirected" to the crash site to secure and hold the sight for retrieval of critical components of the vehicle I described earlier. I honestly don'y know for sure what its method of propulsion was; however, it clearly was NOT some kind of "jet" propulsion. It had to be something else. Something more advanced.
The crash site, was said to be quite remote (at that time) being about 45 Kilometers northeast of Halle, East Germany, near the Hoff Pass. There was a paved road and a stream within about a half a Kilometer from the crash site and they were northwest of where the vehicle came to rest.
In asking him about the 160th SOAR, I noted in my follow up research that the particular unit the witness claimed to be a part of wasn't officially on the books until almost a year later. His response was that often these units become active before any "official" history is recorded. (I can refer back to additional details on this point from my correspondence with the witness if you need further verification.)
The total equipment involved was surprising, even to me. He stated that the units involved in the operation included a number of Navy SEALS, two Mercedes Benz panel trucks that had been appropriated (stolen) from the local economy for transporting some debris, two Blackhawk helicopters, one Apache orbitting the sight to engage anyone who came near it, and one specially equipped CH-53 Super Stallion for removal of the most critical component recovered, the previously described "sphere". The two pilots of the craft had been evacuated before the witness arrived on the scene. Two technicians were brought in to remove critical components from the vehicle's cockpit. The cockpit was said to look remarkably similar to that of an F-16 Fighting Falcon.
The two Blackhawk-transported units diverted to the site carried 8-12 people who he claimed were assigned to the 160th SOAR, 10th Group, 2nd Battalion, 34th Alpha Team.
The unit patch was composed of several items; the main portion of which was a chevron split into four quadrants, with four colors. Clockwise from upper left was red, blue, black and finally white in the lower left corner. Superimposed on the chevron was a sword placed vertically, pointing upward, centered in the chevron, and crossed like an "X" by two arrows. Below the chevron was a banner, that wrapped the lower contours of the chevron that had the latin phrase,"Ubre de Oppreso", which if I have interpretted it correctly, means, "Over the Oppressors".
Some of the equipment the men in this unit had included Gerber Mark I boots, mil-issue flashlight, a knife strapped to the right shoulder, a first aide kit on the left, web gear with utility pouches and grenades. Several soldiers and/or SEAL members carried the three-barreled 20mm "chain gun" system, and other weapons included the "under and over" M-16 with 20mm M-203 Grenade launcher, 50 caliber machine guns regular M-16's and the 1911 45 caliber automatic pistol as a side arm. (I imagine this is standard among "special Forces" but honestly, I wouldn't know...)
The Navy SEAL personnel were described as wearing dark gray pants, and a medium length dark gray wool coat with black night watch knitted cap.
My reaction was much the same as the first responder to my posting, especially when my subsequent research suggested the 2nd Battalion, 34th Alpha Team wasn't on the books until early 1990, (nearly a year later). The witness responded that it had in fact been active, and the implication of its history not being "official" until a year later was thought to be yet another way of creating plausible deniability had the incident come to light at the time.
As for the legitimacy of exotic propulsion systems, whether they exploit the Biefield Brown Effect or mass cancellation by absorbtion of quantum zero-point fuctuation of the vacuum, ("anti-gravity") I can tell you that I have personally witnessed these vehicles in operation on at least half a dozen occasions, and in nearly every instance it was near a major military facility such as Air Force Plant 42, Edwards AFB, the Lockheed Helensdale Facility, or Beale AFB in northern California. See also the video of nine foot triangular lifters on Tim Ventura's website, www.AmercanAntigravity.com. I know several individuals who have been close enough to these craft in U.S. hangars to TOUCH them. (And I'm not talking about Bob Lazar.)
Confirmation of the existence of the F-113G and its conventional aircraft and antigravity capabilities was recently disclosed by Melvin Eugene Salvay a contemporary of Kelly Johnson and Ben Rich at Skunkworks and who also worked with Rockwell's NAA Division in southern California.
This information came to me recently from aviation writer Joseph Jones, a long-time friend, who has prepared a biographical manuscript on Salvay after a two year period of interviews directly with Mr. Salvay. The CIA appeared at Mr. Salvay's home and Joe's printer's offices several months ago, after failing to respond to his inquiries concerning the possibility of there being any "classified" material in the biography. They confiscated his manuscript from the printer. This apparently angered both Jones and Mr. Salvay, who subsequently made the disclosure regarding the appearance and "anti-gravity" features of the F-113G.
For anyone who wonders about the plausibility of a modern "airship" or "blimp" having any "value" in today's military operations, it might be helpful to review the one inch thick proceedings from the 20th November, 1975 Symposium on "The Future of The Airship: A Technical Appraisal". (A copy of which may be obtained by contacting the librarian of the Royal Aeronautical Society, Cranford College of Aeronautics 234-750111 Bedfordshire, UK 01499-3515). This document contains a wealth of information, that suggests very strongly that modern composite materials, being many times stronger than those used in pre-1960 airships could completely redefine the utility of airships used by the military and civilian transport alike.
If you wish to further research the information and specifications on the "Aereon Dynairship" you can Google the term or try contacting the company which was listed in the Aviation Week & Space Technology World Aviation Directory/ Buyer's Guide several years ago: Aereon Corp., 20 Nassau St. Princeton, NJ 08542, (609) 921-2131. I'm sure if you can speak with someone there, you will get an earful about what a 600 foot long, delta-shaped airship is capable of in terms of lift capability. And the nice thing about all-composite airships is, that in spite of their size, they are nearly invisible to radar.
As for the plausibility of acoustic noise cancellation technology, there have been numerous disclosures about this throughout the aviation trade journals, I found one on page 15 of the January 9th, 1995 issue of AW&ST. The cited article states that this research was conducted at Virginia Tech's Vibration and Acoustics Laboratories, under the Department of Mechanical Engineering, Blocksburg, VA.
As for methods by which one might "hide" such a huge aircraft, one Boeing LTAV engineer told me over eight years ago that these craft have a kind of "active skin" that can change color to blend into nearly any environment. They can even simulate the soft, muted appearance of a cloud while lingering within or on the fringe of a real one. They basically hide in plain sight. One witness I spoke with in 1991, another B-2 production facility employee, told me she and a large group of other Northrop employees saw such a vehicle late one night after leaving Plant 42 at the end of their shift. The craft was visible by virtue of the fact that L.A. smog drifting up into the high desert near Palmdale reflected the city lights causing the smog to glow a dull orange. The craft was silhouetted against this background but its camouflage only compensated for the star field above it. They could see what appeared to be an artificially generated star field of lights moving across the ventral surface of the airship.
In closing, let me say that I understand any skepticism voiced here. It all sounds very far-fetched, I know. I can tell you that if you can find the time to loiter near any of the installations cited above between the hours of 10 PM and five AM and do it often enough, you will see somthing that may completely change you outlook as to what is "possible". One witness I spoke to, a well-educated engineer working at the Northrop B-2 Stealth Bomber facility saw a large black disc arrive and depart from the Lockheed Skunkworks Division at Air Force Plant 42 on two occasions in the Summer of 1992.
The latter of the two sightings, included his witnessing the craft departing from the area near the Lockheed facility, and traveling from that point, past him (at the opposite end of the runway) and out into the darkness of the Mojave desert in under two seconds, without any "jet noise" or sonic boom. It changed his life, he said.
Best wishes to all, even you skeptics!
In Reply to: Re: those traingle things again posted by Chris McDowell on June 29, 2006 at 17:09:32 PST:
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